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Alcoholismlisaheal12-04-04  6:59 am
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:40 pm:   

Hi Ingrid,

I just read your article on detoxification. I was wondering if you have a program that is used for recovering alcoholics? I saw that you sold a lot of different herbal remedies. My brother hasn't drank for about a month now, which is long for him. I would love to do what ever I could to help him along in his recovery. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 10:18 pm:   

Dear LP,

Since this question is herbal rather than astrological, I suggest you post it on my site devoted to herbs:

Thank you!
Posted on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 4:24 am:   

Hello Ingrid,
I just found your site. I am wondering if you can give me any astrological advice about my boyfriend with his alcholism, his birthdate is october 29, 1972. And birth time 12:18pm. I am concerned for him and myself. thank you for your time, sheila
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 9:26 am:   

I want to share my views on alcoholism
We all have an inbuilt urge to get free of our limitations, inhibitions, body... to fly like a bird... to have unrestrained thought and action... to live out our dreams. This is good. This is the original IDEA of the CREATOR which is borne out of BLISS.
Somewhere along the line of our living, we got ourselves restrained by so many limitations. When we take alcohol, temporarily, our consciousness gets released of the mundane level and it gets uplifted. This makes it possible for us to live out the original IDEA. When we are out of the influence of alcohol, we touch the gound level due to gravity. However, the memory of our heightened conscious state under the influence of alcohol is very strong and vivid. This creates an urge in us to take alcohol and again live out that lightened dream state.
The problem of alcoholosim is primarily of the problem of consciousness. The physical symptoms are by-products. Any amount of de-toxification will not solve this problem. Similarly, any amount of counselling will not have long term impact. We need to understand that each one of us is an alcoholic (whether we drink alcohol or not)in a hidden way.
At the root of alcoholism, there is (alco)holism. Alcoholics are having excess spiritual creative energy which thery are not able to channelise with full grip on their consciousness. The other side of alcoholism is a creative genius.

I have thougthts on simialr lines.
What are your responses ?
Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 5:20 pm:   

While I respect the right to opinion, this is one with which I several disagreements.

What you have described is Neptunian and, yes, I truly believe that our first trauma is separation from the Divine so we each, in some part of us, carry the grief of that separation as well as the fear of failing to live up to expectations with respect to our creative gifts.

What you have said is, however, half of the picture. In college, I learned that the word "alcohol" is of Arabic origin: Al Ghoul, and while this is closer to the issue, it may be that my professor was misinformed and that the actual etymology is more alchemical and related to a powder of antimony. It any event, while word games can be fun, the word does not really hide the word "holy" except in some quite abstract sense.

Years ago, I shared a practice with a psychologist. I had seen a program on television about alcoholism in which the presenters stated that "Alcoholics do not have relationships; they take hostages." So, I asked my associate for a technical and legal definition of an alcoholic.

She said that an alcoholic is someone whose behavior is so altered by the substance that his relationships are adversely affected. In court, as I have had occasion to explore, the expert witness would be called upon to describe levels of dysfunction, including the priorities given to substance abuse that impair judgment and affect conduct. For instance, if a "bread winner" spends his income on booze while his children are hungry, he has a problem with prioritizing that is affecting relationships with others.

From an astrological angle, the questions are more interesting. Mars and Neptune can never be equally expressive in a horoscope. It's either/or. If you observe the collapse of normal inhibitions under alcohol, then you will easily see the difference between Mars and Neptune. The Mars type becomes more abusive, belligerent, and dangerous whereas the Neptune type goes into fantasies, seldom highly "spiritual," since they as often pertain to sex and money. In either case, there is a delusional component. Mars tends towards the delusion of some kind of superiority, usually measured in a more muscular way, whereas Neptune tends towards the illusion of being more attractive and desirable, whether to lovers or God.

The glitch is that the inebriated person is unable to demonstrate the alleged superiority in, as you point out, a meaningful or "grounded" way. So, while the relaxation of inhibitions may free aspirations, this soaring occurs completely outside the realm of realities that are more consentual . . . and this is the problem when it comes to relationships with others.

In both instances, Mars or Neptune, the outcome is usually black out because the triumph of these energies over Saturn has allowed a lot of sugar to flood the bloodstream and this will inexorably induce sleep or -- relaxation, black out, and coma. While alcoholics may revel in these escapes from Saturn, Saturn will have His day of reckoning and these are extremely painful to those who have fled reality.

I differ with you on one other point that is well worth noting. This is the assumption that the state of intoxification will be blissful. Often as not, it is quite ugly, not just to those around the drinker, but to the drunk as well. In attempting to explain this phenomenon, I refer again to a college experience. A Laotian exchange student told me that in his country, people were never considered friends until they had gotten drunk together. The way I explain this is that the unconscious is full of psychological material, lunar material, that is not normally accessible to the conscious mind. So, while an individual may be intensely attracted to someone, the subconscious may remember something about that person that is repulsive, frightening, or genuinely terrible. The best way I can explain this on a bulletin board would be to compare these reactions to what goes on in a dog's psyche. A dog takes immediate offense at a particular individual because the dog is aware of something that people are not feeling. We do, as you say, cut ourselves off from certain levels of knowing, but we are "unconscious" of our deep subconscious memories as well as our lofty spiritual memories. As the gates open to the unconscious, we seldom have discretion over which memories will furl forth. In therapy, I try to time the prying into the subconscious with particular lunar aspects so that we can get into the archives with deliberate intent and process the memories consciously without the haphazardness of alcohol.

The point here is simply that under the influence, whatever is there has a better chance of coming out. Many people are very sweet when they have been drinking; some are warmer and more expressive; but some are ugly and mean. I think the behavior that emerges is predictable from the horoscope, but if you want to know what is under the surface, drinking may bring it forth, but never with the same grace and sense of responsibility that the same expressions would carry if the person were sober.

If it were me, I would want to hear "I love you" from a sober person, not a slobbering one who was, likely as not, operating from a hidden agenda about personal need fulfillment. Likewise, if I were promising God to deliver my gifts to humanity, I would like to wake up in the morning remembering my vows!
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 4:19 am:   

My husband is an alcoholic and the best person I know. I'd like to understand why he is so destructive to himself. His birthdate is 11/15/1963. He was born to the best of his mother's recollection between 1 and 1:30 p.m. (CST). Is there anything I can do to help him. My birthdate is 9/1/1965 I was born at 5:10 p.m. (EST) I don't know if it was daylight saving time in Holyoke, MA where I was born or not. Thank you for your time and consideration to this question. We've been together since 1984.
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 4:38 am:   

Where was your husband born?
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 3:49 pm:   

Hi Ingrid:
I accidentally came across your website.
You are indeed serving a great cause.
Reading your views on alcoholism and the like
was an eye opener. is there an astrological indicator in a persons's horoscope
to self-destructive behaviour? I am convinced that being an alcoholic is to be self-destructive. Your detailed comments please .Thanks. Satya
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 4:18 pm:   

Usually, with alcoholism, there is a Mars-Neptune struggle. You see this easily under the influence: the persons who become more boisterous and arrogant, perhaps also more reckless and violent, and then those who become sweeter and sleepy and then black out. In both cases, there is a major blood sugar problem and in both cases there is a reduction in inhibitions so one sees what is in the subconscious, this is a sort of raw form, i.e., manifested without the normal supervisory functions of the conscious mind.

You asked, however, about self destructive. Mars is risk taking and to the extent that risks are ill-advised, this could be interpreted as destructive, but the delusion is, of course, of prowess and superiority so that expectation of losing is simply not factored in very well. Where Neptune is concerned, it is destructive through defeatism. This said, I totally understand the individual who will commit suicide out of desperation, this whether over the circumstances of life, such as in the Middle East or great loss or fear of loss such as health complications, business failures, and so forth. Survivors do not give in. Therefore, you have people such as those in the Israeli cabinet or American cabinet who purport not to understand what would drive a person to commit suicide. If they believe what they are saying, they are out of touch with Neptune. Since our President has Sun square Neptune, it isn't really believable that he doesn't understand, especially since he is an alcoholic.

This said, I believe only these planets are linked to self-destruction.
Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 10:36 pm:   

Thank you for your views on alcoholism. I like the relationship between creativity and addiction or alcoholism, i.e. creative genius vs. the foggie alcohol false sense of freedom on the other side.
Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:02 pm:   


If you read older literature, everyone who was "occult and metaphysical" was delusional and the propensity to draw such conclusions continued in the 60s and 70s when many people on drugs flipped out and were diagnosed schizophrenic because of one incident under the influence of drugs. While I feel this is sloppy psychology/psychiatry, the difference between relevant insights and mental illness probably resides in the individual's capacity to utilize the perspectives creatively.

I am quite passionate about this because some of my heroes, for instance the bel canto composers, were manic depressive and they composed their fabulous operas in the manic phases. For me, however difficult it is for someone to understand the state of mind of another person, there is no illness if a great opera emerges from that state of mind. However, if one goes out trying to buy the Statue of Liberty and having it transported to one's front yard, this is another matter. This is a person who has blown through normal boundaries but is unable to relate meaningfully to the contents of the psyche in the new terrain.

I might put this even one more way. Let's say the dream interpreters are right and that everything in one's dreams is a part of oneself, even the trees, cars, animals, and other people. I personally do not believe this, but if one takes dream consciousness into "reality," then one stops to ask a tree what its message is, and the tree says, "Duh, excuse me, I just live here. I'm not your mailbox or shrink." However, someone who is fogged interprets everything in an inappropriately personal way and yet, at the same time, may be much more sensitive to what he thinks he sees in the expression of others and this may trigger more aggressive or feelings of rejection.

I think all these feelings always exist, but we do not explore them so when we do, we are engulfed by them . . . and because of our inexperience, we do not know how to process what is happening and this is the difference between someone who is grounded and someone who is disoriented.
Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 11:02 pm:   

I seem to constantly be asking myself, how and what the dream makes me FEEL.
You say,"..... someone who is fogged interprets everything in an inappropriately personal way and yet, at the same time, may be much more sensitive to what he thinks he sees in the expression of others and this may trigger more aggressive or feelings of rejection".

So, If we are not fogged then do we perceive things in an impersonal way? From a greater distance?

Then you say, "I think all these feelings always exist, (do you mean feelings of agression and rejection) but we do not explore them so when we do, we are engulfed by them . . . and because of our inexperience, we do not know how to process what is happening and this is the difference between someone who is grounded and someone who is disoriented".

So part of being deeply sober means that we are not personalizing everything that happens to us, and we are also exploring the feelings of anger and rejection that happen when we do take things personally, and living with the pain that that causes without trying to escape.
I'm not sure where where creativity comes into this but I think for me it's the need to communicate something...........Uhm! maybe the oneness with everything and everyone cause it's the perception of separation that causes the pain.
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 3:52 am:   

The original wound was separation, just what you suspect. I like to think of it as we once all lived inside God and when God projected us into His Creation, we felt like we had left some place and yet we remembered our mission. However, when we tried to manifest that Idea, we lacked the skills to perform the mission perfectly. We began to feel less than perfect and this made us feel unworthy and this made the feeling of separation seem even more painful. Countless experiences later and we devise spiritual practices that help us to find our way home, as if we were ever "not home."

The difference between functioning and not functioning is the ability to recognize that the understanding of one's feelings does not make them relevant in situations where those feelings are not "appropriate."

In other words, back to the issue of the landscape of dreams. If the dream is completely one's own creative imagination trying to speak through the unconscious, which is pictoral rather than verbal, then we look for symbolism in the pictures, but if we carry this outside the dream world, we will basically trespass on other people's dreams by asking what the significance is of what they have projected from their psyches . . . and this will surely make a lot of people crazier than they already are.

Am I making this worse?
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 4:12 am:   

I guess I don't get involved in trying to interpret peoples dreams or my own dreams. Maybe for the reason(s) that you mention I feel better just checking in with how they make me feel.

My mom died in March of this year. I recently had a lucid dream in which I saw her. The dream was full of messages I'm sure, but what was important to me was to ask myself how it made me feel and to go from there. I guess the feeling I was left with was a thankfulness for her expressions of concern toward me, the creativity in her response to my saddened heart, and an appreciation for finishing the sequence of events that unfolded in the dream. I felt good about the interaction that we had. The words that express the feeling I was left with are, "...let's do this again...."

It's not that I literally want to keep meeting in dreams, although that would be nice, but that I was left with a positive feeling of connection, caring, finishing business in a creative way and appreciation for her and the dream. This way of dealing with the dream begins and ends with how the dream made me feel. I guess for me this is simpler.
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 7:44 pm:   


I understand. I think I was getting both punchy and abstract in some of my comments.

There are psychologists and dream specialists who seem to believe that dreams are entirely subjective and that the content always arises from within the individual. I personally do not believe this.

There are also those who believe that what we dream soon after falling asleep is what we need to dream to complete experience whereas what we dream before awakening is prophetic. I'm not sure this is 100% true either.

I think that those of us who are committed do lots of out of body traveling and work and that we can bring back impressions. I also feel that if we allow ourselves to see interdimensionally, we can see and communicate with those who have lost their physical bodies and the ability to use those bodies to communicate. So, I believe that you can meet your mother in your dreams.

I think the issue that triggered this discussion was the relevance attached to subjective experiences. I think all such experiences are relevant, but we have to know the context in which this is true or we will appear loony to others.
Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:43 pm:   

Ingrid and Shrikant,
I learned my favorite view of alcoholism from Linda Leaonard. One of her books is called, Witness to The Fire: Creativity and the Veil of Addiction. She is a Jungian analyst, a philosophy teacher whos's into Kierkegard and Heideger sp? on both those names, and a recovering alcoholic who uses the 12 steps.
She says that the word addiction shares it's roots with the Greek word addicere meaning to devote onesself habitually. She says that in ancient Greece addicts tended the temples. There was a special role made for the person with a tendency toward excessive devotion. We have more information about many things now but we have lost so much wisdom along the way.
Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 5:40 am:   

It's so easy to blur the line between ritualistic use of consciousness shifting substances and abuse, easy to find a past life in which one's habits were sanctioned or even celebrated and to use this information to whitewash the wasting of one's creativity in delusional escapes from reality. If one knows where those lines are and is not tempted to cross them, that is one thing, not that I am suggesting ritualistic use of alcohol or drugs, merely saying that it is different to move in a prepared way into altered states than to fall into stupors out of weakness of will power.

This said, I believe the definition of an alcoholic at least partly takes into account that person's ability to function normally in social circumstances. If one has a disproportionate sense of self or is abusive or incoherent, one is surely not in a position to defend one's addiction(s).
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 9:04 pm:   

I wanted to expand on what the fellow who spoke of alcoholism and creative genius.
I will not say that this always the case and there is both a dark/destructive side to alcohol and an inspirational side to it.
The symbol here is Dionsyus- the God of wine and an accurate archetype for Pisces.
And grabbing from a previous post I read in this site. I definitely don't buy the current trend to champion everything done by the sign Scorpio and make everything about Pisces weak.
That is just simply not true and there is much proof of Piscean influence being much more into changing the world then there is for Scorpio.
In fact I would say there is a conformist-status-quo trait to Scorpio that does not make it really change things in fundemental way.
One thing is the number of revolutionaries with Pisces Moons.
In Esoteric Astrology- the ultimate transformation takes place with Pisces and this makes sense.
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 1:59 am:   

You seem to have taken off in a new direction?
Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 7:16 pm:   

My husband das a drinking problem, his DOB:
May,3rd,1957,Born in New York,Manhattan,4.50PM.
My DOB:July,29th,1957,Born Craiova(44N19,23E48)
at 7.30PM.
Please, shed some light on what remedies to use
to help him (and myself)?
Thank you,
Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 9:32 pm:   

For remedies, herbs and such, I would suggest posting on Usually, the types of questions that are best addressed on this bulletin board would refer directly to the chart.

Sometimes people ask questions that really require a lot of time to answer and that are probably best addressed privately, but once in a while, I answer them and sometimes I feel it's too much for a bulletin board.
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 6:53 pm:   

My husband is an alcoholic and the best person I know. I'd like to understand why he is so destructive to himself. His birthdate is 11/15/1963. He was born to the best of his mother's recollection between 1 and 1:30 p.m. (CST)in Austin, TX. Is there anything I can do to help him. My birthdate is 9/1/1965 I was born at 5:10 p.m. (EST) I don't know if it was daylight saving time in Holyoke, MA where I was born or not. Thank you for your time and consideration to this question. We've been together since 1984.
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 3:53 pm:   

Your husband would appear to be the type who uses escape to relax the feelings of inhibition. He has a strong Moon/Neptune conjunction that includes his Sun. Combined with the Aquarius ASC (presumably but maybe Pisces?), he probably really wants to feel free of restraint, Saturn in the 12th.

There have been many attempts to define alcoholism by people who have a professional need to generate labels and quantify everything from blood alcohol levels to behavior. The definition I find most helpful relates to the priorities. At what point does the drink mean more than the family or job? The other criterion that brings focus to the issue of social drinking versus alcoholism is the matter of when others are emotional hostages to the drinker's behavior. If either of these patterns is operating, there is a problem beyond slow metabolism of the alcohol.

What I read in your post is that you adore your husband. You want to help him, but you have not actually said that you have a problem or that he has a problem. You seem to be shielding yourself or him from reality. To the extent that this might be true, you are part of the Neptune game.

Obviously, Neptune can be very charming and you may prefer this to some other energy in your life, but is he drinking more than you feel is safe and healthy? is he blacking out? he is out of touch with reality? is he using alcohol to access insights or release behavior that he cannot experience without drinking? If so, he needs to become aware of the higher levels of Neptune expression.
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 1:05 pm:   

dear ingrid
I am pleased to say that by exaimining my own birth chart I come to Know that we are all part of creation all with our uniqueness and similarities. I used to think of a God with the capacity for anger.Now I know there is no need to fear such a thing,it seems strange how we impute God with human emotions and then worry at the thought of the imagined disaproval.
I respect the divine Just ditched the fear.We all rely on each others happiness in order to feel secure so we instinctively want to help each other , we so in the end we will have peace. 12 nov 1954. 1:50am Luton Bedfordshire U.K. comments please

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